CleanCo has set its sights on creating a range of delicious, full flavored non-alcoholic alternatives that you can bring into your favorite full-strength cocktails. Bringing decades of work within the spirits industry, CleanCo Chairman, Justin Hicklin has guided the burgeoning movement to transform the way that you think about No-Lo alcohol options and helps pave a compelling direction that awaits. We sat down with Justin to learn more about this work and his perspective on the impact of No-Lo options in the space.
How did Your Work with CleanCo Begin?
I was introduced to Spencer Matthews in late March of 2019. At the time, he was looking to moderate his alcohol consumption, and had tried some no/low alcohol options. But thought, well, it's not a gin, and I like gin and tonic, but there isn't one there. So, he came up with this idea of “clean”, and frankly, the only thing I knew about it was I'd seen him on the TV and thought he was really objectionable from his TV persona, and didn't really want to meet him at all. But I met him, found him to be absolutely charming, and thought he had a great idea.
A mutual friend also said, “you know, he needs somebody who understands spirits and business. He's got a good idea. Why don't you do something together?” So we did, and that was the beginning of the business. We then registered the company, and then we fundraised, so on and so forth. So, I was there from the beginning and it has been quite something.
What did Your Work in Spirits Look like Before CleanCo?
I actually started in agencies working for lots of Big Blue Chip clients, and one of those was Diageo. We did a lot of work at the beginning on malt advocacy, on taste and flavor working with scientists, cellarmen and distillers to try and unpack what it was that was great about one malt over another. In particular, I worked with the team in the US who were fantastically interested in it because they were sending salesmen out on the road to try and sell a $100 bottle and they needed to be deeply educated on what they were talking about. So, there we were trying to explain taste, flavor and process to these people, and it was interesting work.
I went on to do a lot of work for Tanqueray, Johnnie Walker, Captain Morgan, Buchanan's, and a whole series of products. Throughout that time, not being a scientist or engineer, I was picking up lots of knowledge about process, liquid, the truth behind the scenes and also a sort of an education in taste and flavor. So when Spencer and I met, we were able to use that knowledge to be able to start to create the different products.
Before we started, one thing that we were really convinced of, was that we didn't want to produce just another product. We wanted to produce a major brand that was going to do significant things. A lot of my previous experience with alcoholic products was that you've got people trying to produce something that was interesting, but maybe 5% better than this other product. We wanted to produce products that were 100%+ better than our competitors and that was going to be a huge ask. Also, there were other people who didn't have enough money to make a breakthrough, who were always going to be on the bar and ultimately disappear. I said, “Look, I'm not going to be part of another underfunded startup; if we're going to do it, we're going to do it big and we're going to do it properly.”
So, that's what we set out to do. We set out to change the world. We set out to get people to drink Clean. We started in the UK, and now we're in the US, which is fantastic. If you consider that our first product launch was November 2019, and we're now January 2022, that’s not a very long period. In that time, we've learned a lot. I think that the important thing about Clean, based on our vision for it, is, as a gin and tonic drinker, or a mimosa drinker, or a Paloma drinker, or whatever you are, the only choice you should have to make is, do I want ethanol or not in my drink? Because the taste you get from those drinks, with our product, should be exactly the same.
If you like gin and tonic, and you choose Clean, all you're doing is saying, “Well, I don't want the buzz, and I don't want the hangover.” The rest of it you get. We know that because our most recent version of Clean G, which is the fourth since we started, we tested in an independent taste testing facility in the UK, against the world's biggest London dry gin, head-to-head in gin and tonics. We were the preferred product, for 7 out of 10 people we asked. It was only when we said oh, by the way, this one's got 40 plus percent ABV. and CleanCo has just 0.5, they started to have that internal dialogue of “well, I should obviously like the one with the alcohol.” Actually in terms of taste, that's where we want to be; we want to be as good or better.I suppose the same as Tesla and electric cars, you know, Volkswagen and Audi and Ford, they all “do” electric cars. But only Tesla truly ‘does’ electric cars, and that's all they do. That's our thing: All we do is produce No-Lo alcohol spirits.
What has the Evolution of the Brand been as it Relates to the Four Products?
When we started, we did a lot of work online, and then with major retailers. Traditionally, from my experience, when you start out, you go up into the bar trade in the big city, you seed your brand, then you roll it into other bars and other bars and other bars. Eventually you get into supermarkets and you get into online distribution. We did it totally the other way around, to some degree necessitated by the pandemic because there were no bars operating. We were able to launch a series of gin variants quite quickly. In the UK for instance, we did rhubarb and a pink gin.
We can see online how people have liked them and then we launched those into supermarkets. Gin has been the easiest spirit alternative to do, because it has Juniper, and has a really strong flavor profile, everyone does gin. However, it’s difficult to do it well. Too many people pack it full of sugar or sugar substitutes like aspartame and they fill it full of preservatives and you end up with a sort of a ginny gloop, which is what we don't like. We prefer a sort of fresh zing to the whole thing and that’s what we think that we have. But then we started developing our rum. I had done work on Captain Morgan in the past, and I was keen to do something in that sort of spiced rum area. We produced a rum replacement, which was really. successful. There, the important thing is because all of these products need to be mixed, you need to create this balance of the caramel and vanilla and all of those flavors that will balance with a cola. This way, you get that sort of really delicious rum and coke flavor coming through.
We always like big challenges; we said, “Well, all the world drinks vodka, but how can you produce non-alcoholic vodka?” In a way, non-alcoholic vodka is water. Isn't it supposed to be flavorless and odorless? Now having spent 15 years working on Smirnoff and Ciroc and other great vodkas brands, we had to invoke some key learnings from that time, about winning flavours. We tried a number of traditional vodka flavors, most of which didn’t work, then we found out that we actually needed two things: we needed a flavor that was going to be popular and we needed a sensation delivering spice to balance it. A lot of drinking alcohol was about the sensation through your trigeminal nerve. That's the bit that gives you the dryness and the heat that goes through the brain. The reason we came up with a spiced apple, was that you've got delicious appleness with the warmth from the cinnamon. Really good for the holidays, some will be surprised by it, but then lots of people love it and we have had a huge amount of positive feedback from bartenders and friends in the bartrade.
The big one for us was the tequila alternative. You can't really turn up in the States without one. We worked really hard for a long period of time, on the balance between those sort of pencil shaving and green woody notes and then the warmth in the tail. The Clean T product is, I think, admired because it has a balance within it. Again, what we're trying to do here is to work really hard to give a product elegance and premiumness. With Clean T, it's not enough to just simply create something that tastes a bit tequila-ish, and a bit chili-ish, and hope it sells. We must be able to stand behind our products as good alternatives.
How do You Develop These Unique Products?
Now as you know, it's not just me. I don't sit there like Edison, you know, inventing light bulbs. We have two people named Lucy. They are the Tastemakers who are working exclusively with us. They have got massive experience in taste and flavor development, and we work together as a team. Spencer, who's got a very good palate, also comes in as part of that gang. What we're always trying to do with all of these liquids is push the boundaries of what is possible. It is not enough to accept second best. There are moments when you hit that wall with all of your innovation processes, and you say “What do we do?” Looking back to the Vodka example, we hit a wall; we didn't know where to go. Then somebody said, “Well, what about this? What about something that stimulates the trigeminal nerve?” The result is a completely new way of approaching things.
Ultimately, each release comes from a desire to create a significant product that is relevant to the countries we are in: Gin in the UK, Tequila in the US, Whiskey coming down the track. Vodka and Rum. For all of these, as our technology and our understanding of how you do it better improves, all of them will be developed and evolved. Think of it as your iPhone, from the original to its current version. Both carry the iPhone name, but they are very different. We want to approach each of our products in the same way by leading the innovation.
Can You Speak More to the Need to be Iterative and Inventive?
If and when there is a significant advance, we must then look at everything we've got beforehand and determine if what we’ve learned can improve what we’re doing. It’s paramount that we take the time to do so. Because why wouldn't we?
One of the challenges for our competitors in larger companies is that they are used to the mentality that says the best thing in the world is a 200 year old recipe, or a technique that was established in 1956, or pot stills that were developed in the Middle Ages. But it’s not true. Because why would it be? Why should drinks be different from any other business in the need to iterate? I mean, I love a potstilled product, and I do love old recipes. In fact, I was a part of the team that developed Bell's Original Whisky based on an old recipe.
But the mindset for no and low products has to be that if you can tell even the smallest difference between the full-strength and your product, then you haven't finished. Once you can do that, then you can take a break, and then keep moving forward. Until 90% of the people say that they prefer your G&T experience more than the best selling London dry gin on the market, you can’t go home until you've done that. You just can't.
That's the way we approach it and the way we think about distillation is exactly the same. What we do for our products is that we use probably 20 different extraction techniques to get the flavors out of different botanicals, processes like reverse osmosis or spinning cone extraction all of these different ways without using ethanol are technically quite difficult but not as flashy as a pot still you might see at a distillery. We're making that ultimate flavor as intense as it can be to the point of perfection for every product.
How did You Develop the Look and Feel of the CleanCo Brand?
Without blowing Spencer's trumpet, a lot of it was him. He had this idea in his head of the sort of bottle he wanted with this stripped down elegance. Those core elements of the star, the logo, the shape of the bottle and the way it would work were all developed by Spencer and a designer that he worked with.
We want impact in bars and shops but also we want to have impact in people's homes. If you've got a drinks tray or a trolley or a bar we want you to be really happy to see this behind the bar and have people go “oh, what's that? I like that.” So, again, everything we were trying to do is in that sort of premium end and we don't want to half-ass it. We want to make sure that you feel proud as a customer to have bought this and you recommend it to your friends because that's how we grow.
Now, we also are so very lucky to be able to work with amazing individuals to grow our impact. Lana Buchanan who used to work at AB InBev, focused on non-beer there and also did a lot with Aperol in a previous life and lots of other products, is now on board to help develop the brand and the proposition. Our association with Demeter and Co. has not only brought us Lana, but also various other people like Laurence Wolfe, our operations head, but a complete group of just great, experienced people who can help us scale the business in the US and globally.
What Cocktails do You Enjoy Making with CleanCo?
Well, I love Gin and Tonic. So I think the idea behind Clean is you don't have to overthink it. So if you'd like Gin and Tonic, have it, and if you'd like Negroni, but you don't want it as strong, replace the gin with Clean G. I love a Negroni, but if I have a couple of them, I start knocking into furniture. So, I reduce the alcohol by actually just having the Vermouth and the Clean G and some bitters. You can reduce the alcohol in a cocktail like that and still make it incredibly delicious. So if you want to try something new, take a couple shakes of bitters and vermouth with the Clean G, and you have this delicious Negroni with a big slice of orange. I just love it.
What I've been introduced to recently is the Paloma, because over here (in the UK), when I think of tequila, I go to the Margarita. But actually the Paloma is now a beautiful cocktail to make with sparkling grapefruit and the Clean T. Again, you should be able to use any of your existing cocktails with our products. We've also made sure that all of our drinks are very low calorie.
In the end, in a few years time, I believe that you will start buying your typical spirit and a bottle of Clean so that you have both options for you and your guests. People will come to your house and won't want to drink full strength alcohol and not offering something Clean will be a big deal.
How do You See the No-Lo Alcohol Space Developing?
I would like the public to recognize the superiority of our products; for people to talk about those and to come to us above everybody else. What worries me is that people will taste some of those less good products and be turned off by the sector and need to be reintroduced to the sector by better products.
Ideally people will try us, and then be delighted by it and carry on. You have to believe you're the best, and you're striving to be the best, which comes down to this iteration process. If you can build a reputation for being the best and people talk about it, then you will be successful.
Additionally, you can’t be too broad either. You can't have 400 variants, you've got to have your key variants in each of the categories and say to people ‘try this’. I think the market will grow. I think that there will be lots of competitors who have full strength brands and will come up with a zero. But we will hopefully be the most significant player who only specialize in low alcohol products, because that's all we do.
How does this Work Reflect Your Own Life Stage?
I think the irony for me to come to the top of the discussion is that I'm a 60 plus year old bloke who's drunk alcohol his whole life, eaten meat his whole life, and driven big cars. Now I'm sitting here, moderating my alcohol, eating meat that’s not meat, and driving cars with no gas – because it's a better way of living your life. You still get fed; you still get to the same place. You just do it in a different way.
The whole thing about booze and ethanol is it's great. I love a full-strength gin and tonic, but I didn't love me when I have had one every night and maybe even a half bottle of wine with it. So, it's a positive change that I've made in the way I live my life, which I think is what other people will come to, and it was very natural.
The funny thing is my son's a bartender. When we started this out in 2019, he would hardly engage at all with it, now he is far more accepting. I would say to him, “Look, how often have you been at a bar where you've had a customer who's obviously had too much? You would like to be able to say ‘can I make that clean for you, sir?’” I think that now he gets it!
There is a responsible thing, as a bartender, as a bar owner, as a household where you're inviting people into that environment and you should be able to offer somebody something that's alcohol-free or reduced alcohol because not offering that, might get them into trouble. I think it is something that wouldn't even have been thought about 10 years ago, but increasingly people are becoming aware of it.
Do You have any Final Closing Thoughts?
Drinking No-Lo is not betraying spirits; not betraying your love of your favorite brand; it is an addition to that brand. It is a partner product for people who are buying in ReserveBar, they should embrace drinking Clean as part of their weekly enjoyment of their favorite drinks, where they can choose whether they want the ethanol or not. We feel excited about the future and look forward to producing more, great liquids in each of the key categories.
